Thanks for all the feedback on my last post about children and food. We’ll see how things go as our son gets older, but for now we’ll just assume that he’ll be somewhat like his parents. My husband and I will eat anything that is put in front of us (trust me – I ate pig intestines when I lived in Africa). I don’t buy or cook meat anymore for ethical reasons, but if I’m at someone else’s house and they serve it, I will eat it. Not liking something and not eating it are two different things. Obviously when I go to the store I purchase foods I like (but that involves one of just about everything from the produce department), and our meals tend to be things that we prefer. But if we’re at someone else’s house or at an ethnic restaurant, we’ll eat whatever we’re served. That’s what we’re trying to instill in our son. I assume that he’ll grow up with various food preferences. And I assume that once he’s cooking for himself and his own family, he’ll prepare the foods he likes. But my goals are to make sure that he’s exposed to a very wide range of foods, and to make sure that he knows it is absolutely unacceptable to make his own food preferences known if someone else is preparing the food.
Since learning begins in the home, we feel that it’s important that he learn that when his parents are doing the cooking, he needs to eat what’s put in front of him. My mother encouraged all of her children to help her in the kitchen, and would let us prepare meals, from choosing the menu to shopping and cooking (none of my three siblings are picky eaters either). We will start doing that with our son as soon as he’s old enough. Since we’re planning to start growing most of our own food once we move, we’ll involve him in that as soon as he’s able. If he’s grown the food in his own garden, he’ll probably be much more likely to appreciate it on the plate.
I read studies before I was pregnant that indicated that what a mother eats while she’s pregnant can have an influence on a child’s tastes. I gave up sugar before I got pregnant (and we still don’t eat it now), and boosted my already high veggie intake. I started making green smoothies while I was pregnant, and our son pretty much always finishes his whole bowl of green smoothie. We don’t eat processed food or conventional dessert in our house, so our son hasn’t been exposed to sweets, and he’s never had fast food (I do serve plenty of fruit, and make desserts out of things like dates and nuts blended together). All of this makes it easier for us to feed him a wide range of foods, including lots of veggies.
This is obviously a personal preference issue. For some parents, it might not be as big a deal. It’s very important to us that our son grow up willing to try new foods and able to eat anywhere with anyone without being a fussy eater. So we’re working towards that goal. We’ll see how it goes, but so far so good!
Kelly says
That is awesome that your little one is such a great eater. My daughter, at 15 months, is just starting to get a little bit picky. She has previously eaten whatever was put in front of her, with a huge preference for cheese. Now, not so much. She doesn’t really eat it. I made my own baby food as well, but I do still occasionally prepare something other than what my husband and I are eating for her for dinner, depending on what we are having. Not because she doesn’t like it, but – for example – if we are having steaks, she may have scrambled eggs. Only because we don’t want her to choke if we are eating tougher cuts of meat or something. She has her preferences, but has up to this point always been a fantastic eater. I am not sure if it is just a stage, or growing, or what but I hope she resumes her awesome eating soon!
J says
I’m a little appalled, honestly, that you’re a vegetarian for ethical reasons but will eat meat at someone’s house to not offend them on a regular basis. Wouldn’t your close friends and family understand if you skipped the meat dish at their house but ate the vegetables and other sides? I guess I don’t really understand what it’s accomplishing. I’ve been a vegetarian for 13 years and no one has ever been offended that I simply don’t eat the meat. I don’t expect anyone to make me anything special and I don’t make a fuss.
FrugalBabe says
J,
You do make good points, and it’s a tricky subject that we’ve tried to figure out as we go along. Years ago, I was a strict vegetarian, and never ate meat at all. I know there were a few occasions when I was at someone’s house, didn’t eat the meat, and it was noticed. Usually the flustered hosts started apologizing and asking if they could prepare anything else for me to eat. I would always decline, but I didn’t like the uncomfortable feeling that resulted.
We very rarely eat at anyone else’s house to begin with. Several of our friends are vegetarian, so it makes no difference at their homes. It’s maybe once every few months or so that we’re at someone’s house and meat is served as an integral part of the meal (for example, in a stew, where it would be obvious if I picked out the pieces of meat). Thanksgiving and other such meals are easy – where the meat is served on it’s own and everyone serves themselves. In that case, I will just pass by the platter of meat and continue on, filling my plate without anyone noticing that I didn’t take any meat.
But in the case of a stew or casserole where meat is mixed in with the meal, I’d rather eat it than make it obvious to my hosts that I’m not eating the food they prepared. Not eating it wouldn’t impact the meat industry, since I’m not the one doing the food shopping in that case. It’s a tough choice, and one that I’ve thought a lot about. This is the solution that works for me, but I realize that it wouldn’t work for everyone.
Trixie says
Hello,
What a great plan to have your son help with the gardening! It will make all the difference in the world.
I grew up on a farm with a large garden and when we got to be about 5 we each had our little “garden” inside the garden and took growing our own veggies very seriously. To this day, the kids in our family will eat almost any kind of fruit or vegetable.
Before you know it, your little guy will be getting you to try each and every one of the vegetable plants he helps tend. So precious!
Take Care,
Trixie
Tamara says
I have two kids – 3 and 6 and neither is a picky eater. I think we made some wise choices like you have that have helped that be true. But I think we have to be careful not to think we have complete control and we can MAKE our kids be good eaters.
My other comment is that people always told me once my son turned two he would stop loving broccoli but that has not been true. He still likes it. Lots of times when kids two and up refuse food – it does not have to do with the food anyway – it is a control issue.
AD says
I’ll only eat grass-fed, free-range, organic, etc. meat, but I can’t make exceptions, even at someone’s house.
Better to politely decline than to feel physically ill, for me at least!
Jill says
Longtime reader- rare, if ever, poster.
I am with J. If you’re ethically opposed to meat but eat it at other people’s houses you’re not following your code of ethics. What better way to confuse other people about vegetarianism? What better way to confuse your child with mixed messages?
Just do me a favor- don’t call yourself a vegetarian. There is nothing worse than someone walking around in this world saying they are vegetarian and then eating meat. I don’t want to be contentious or rude, but I find your stance and rationale to be ridiculous. I have generally agreed with most of what you’ve done on your blog… I’m a Frugal Babe myself with 1 year old twins who love their veggies. But with this new line of reasoning exposed, I will probably stop by less often. Just sayin’.
neimanmarxist says
OK. I haven’t been commenting lately , but I’m still a faithful reader, and I think that the only thing that *could * be worse than a (God Forbid) vegetarian who occasionally eats meat is a danged sanctimonious vegetarian. Snooze.
I mean let’s be serious here. Did you seriously just chastise someone you don’t know over whether their definition of vegetarianism conforms to yours? Are you really going to stop coming to this blog because the author occasionally eats what’s put in front of her at others’ homes ? I don’t know whether to laugh or be as “appalled” as the self-appointed vegetarian police over here.
J and Jill, we’re probably more vegetarian in our household than you are in yours (neener-neener), and since it follows that those with the strictest diets get to make the rules and berate others, I hereby proclaim Frugal Babe to be a vegetarian. This blog isn’t about vegetarianism but about living well with little money. Let the lady call herself what she pleases. I mean really.
And as for this blog post, the one before it, and all the ones about the house sale & purchase, I think it’s wonderful that your child eats vegetables and I’ll take a page from your book when I have my own. I always learn so much on this blog. Congrats on your new home!
FrugalBabe says
J and Jill,
So, I have a question for you both. What do you do if you’re invited to someone’s house for dinner (who doesn’t know your food preferences) and the meal is a single-dish affair, something like chili, stew, casserole, soup, etc – that has meat in it? Do you eat nothing? Do you bring your own food along just in case? How do you deal with the embarassment that the host might be feeling?
It is very important to me that we teach our son the ethical values that we hold dear. Not only do I not buy or cook meat, but I avoid purchasing nearly all animal products, including things like cheese and ice cream (once some of my favorite foods). But while this is very high on my values list, honoring and respecting people – and their feelings – is higher. This is something I want my son to learn as he grows up. I spent two years as a vegetarian who wouldn’t ever make exceptions. I was happy with my choice, but I would be lying if I said that it never made a host uncomfortable. I respect your choices, but I would be very surprised if you can honestly say that you’ve never made a host uncomfortable. Again, that’s a personal choice, and for plenty of people, the ethical decision to not eat meat wins out. For me, it doesn’t, and that’s what I’m passing on to my son. It’s something I’ve put a lot of thought into, and I feel comfortable with my current lifestyle. Food and the ethics surrounding it play a very important role in my life, but people play an even more important role, and I want to live my life in accordance with that philosophy.
FrugalBabe says
Wow, thanks Neiman Marxist! You made me smile :-)
Kelly says
Holy bananas! Here is Frugal Babe passing on what has worked for her and then getting jumped all over. Depending on who you talk to, there are about a million different parameters for what is or isn’t vegetarian. If 99% of the time you don’t eat meat, then yeah, I would say you are a vegetarian. Kudos for Frugal Babe for teaching her son the importance of being a gracious guest and treating people kindly.
And me…pass the steak. I wish I could go veggie, but what can I say…I’m an omnivore! However, I applaud people who are vegetarian, even if they aren’t militant about it 100% of the time!
Jill says
I just wrote a long response but it got lost when I didn’t fill in the spam protector.
Long story short- I am a vegan who gets annoyed when people call themselves veg and then eat meat. Why? Well, when I go to a restaurant and ask about what I can eat I’ll often be offered fish, or chicken, or something made from beef broth because a “vegetarian” was in there prior and said that was okay.
When I go to someone’s house for dinner they know I am vegan.They wither know me well enough or I call in advance and let them know. They either prepare something vegan or we bring something vegan. If I entertained a Muslim for dinner and had pork and they explained that they could not eat it, not one ounce of me would be offended. My belief in animal rights is as fervent as a religious devotee.
If a host is uncomfortable, I am sure their discomfort is nothing next to the discomfort of the animal in the slaughterhouse.
I don’t eat or use any animal products. So if I am at your house and the only breakfast cereal you have contains honey, I’ll opt for the fruit. Generally I travel with a couple of vegan energy bars in my purse in case of emergency, but I rarely have to break into my stash. More is vegan out there than people think.
By eating meat at other people’s houses you are creating demand for meat. If your host in advance knew not to make a serving or 2 or 3 of meat then they would purchase less.
I can’t stand hypocrisy. Stand up for what you believe in. Surely if you believe that consuming meat is wrong and you eat so little if any dairy in your home you have a pretty good idea of why it is screwed up to support those industries. Now put your actions where your mouth is.
And just one more thing- how confusing will it be to your child when you tell him that at home we don’t eat animals but elsewhere we do?
Jane says
As a picky eater, I salute your efforts to teach your son to eat what is in front of him with grace. I have a hard time eating unfamiliar foods and it does create some socially awkward situations. I am working on getting better at this because I don’t want to limit myself in this multi-cultural world. Bottom line is that we are all so fortunate to have choices in our diets. So many in this world do not have such freedom.
neimanmarxist says
OK, this is going to be the last thing I say about this, and then I’m going to let it rest. If the idea is to reduce the overall demand for meat, don’t you think that we should applaud all movements toward vegetarianism and a reduction in the consumption of animal products, as opposed to only the most extreme ones? I mean, a person eating meat only once a week, never mind once every few months, is still saving a lot of cows compared to the average american.
Frankly, Jill, it’s people like you that give vegetarianism a bad name. Perhaps more could be converted if it weren’t your heroic, but rather unpleasant, example setting the standard and creating the stereotype.
Jill says
Nope. I’m not unpleasant. Sorry, neimanmarxist, but I don’t fit the stereotype you want me to.
Academic says
Nope, sorry, Jill. You are pretty unpleasant.
Kelly says
I would have to agree with Academic and Neimanmarxist. I don’t think you are very pleasant. I don’t understand why any reduction in animal consumption from the Standard American Diet is considered a good thing.
Wilm says
I’m amazed at how heated the comments to this post have become.
I understand that people have strong opinions about what they eat/why they will or won’t eat certain products…….but surely we can be civil if we disagree.
Surely Frugal Babe can call herself a vegetarian if she predominantly follows a vegetarian diet??? I don’t see what it is so offensive for her to eat the odd meal containing meat if she feels it is a polite and gracious thing to do as a guest.
Jill – I can understand your logic (although it could have been shared in a more pleasant manner) but you can’t expect everyone that follows a predominantly vegetarian diet to be as passionate or strict. You can’t enforce your standards on others – discuss and share views, but not enforce your ways.
May I ask why eating honey isn’t acceptable to you? Just interested!
Cheers, Wilma
Geoff K says
Well to add my buck fifty.
To Jill I don’t think you’re unpleasant just passionate. Maybe what Kelly, Academic and Neimanmarxist are reacting to is a perceived attack on Frugal Babe.
What I think Jill is saying is how can you eat meat some of the time, and violate principles you hold dear, because you want people to be more comfortable? Shouldn’t such principles be immutable? I can understand this as I was a vegetarian for 10 years.
However Frugal Babe express very well her feelings and thoughts on the subject. She’s thought it through and it’s a matter of priorities for her. And I think she is indeed doing better than 99% of the population.
However I have to say the thing that made feel me a bit sad is the words “and to make sure that he knows it is absolutely unacceptable to make his own food preferences known if someone else is preparing the food.” (I agree no one should be expected to make another meal to accommodate a fussy or conscious eater) but have to say that for 10 years I made my food preferences known when often I wasn’t preparing the food.
Whether you want to look at this as people pleasing versus self-determination, or an issue of consideration and respecting your host is your call but it may not hurt to look whether there are better absolutes to instill than this.
To answer FB’s question to J and Jill:
In my ten years as a vegetarian – many spent in a rural conservative area where being a vegetarian was akin to being crazy – I would either just have what people were having minus the meat or take my own subsitute.
I took vegetarian sausages to barbecues. The hosts didn’t feel embarrassed instead they gave me a hard time!
Growing up on a sheep farm meant there were few illusions about where meat came from. I couldn’t cut a sheep’s throat open and bleed it. Later I wouldn’t even want to pay other people to do it for me.
Jill says
Geoff, thanks for noting that I may just be passionate. I am very passionate, and sometimes that comes across the same way. When I first went vegetarian I was 14 and in a very conservative family, so I get you with the jokes! And I also bring my own burgers/hot dogs to bbqs. Often though our non veg friends have fun coming up with something vegan. This is a great way to gently show people by modeling how easy it can be to not eat animal products. I haven’t eaten meat in 16 years and I have influenced about ten-fifteen people to turn veg by not being in their face, but just by being… showing up to functions and easily making my lifestyle doable.
I don’t want to come across as mean spirited. I am simply passionate about the cause and confused because of aforementioned questions about following convictions.
I’m also a former English teacher- I like definitions. One is not a vegetarian if they eat meat once every 3 months. That’s a flexitarian. Above I outlined how difficult people who call themselves vegetarian but will eat meat when out make it for people who are actually vegetarian. We have to reexplain what a vegetarian is and still have the waiter say, “but a veg ate fish last week!” and scratch their heads. Also, it makes the vegetarian movement look like it is flaky and inhabited by people who don’t stick to their convictions. But then again I was probably wrong to assume FB is an ethical vegetarian. There are many reasons to eat a vegetarian diet… so sorry that I assumed that.
Why no honey? Being a vegan means forgoing all animal products. So I forgo all animal products. Do a quick google search on honey production. Do I cheat and use moisturizers with lanolin? NO! I wouldn’t call myself a vegan if I did. Then I’d be a vegetarian. If you eat meat once in a while at someone’s house you’re an omnivore that enjoys a vegetarian diet at home.
FrugalBabe says
Thanks for weighing in everyone! Just to clarify… when we go to someone else’s house to eat, or if we’re invited to a pot luck or bbq, I ALWAYS bring along a vegan dish. Like Jill, I’ve inspired several of my friends (and readers of this blog!) to eat more veggies and less meat, and even start making green smoothies and growing sprouts. At a restaurant, I would never order a meal with meat in it. I find that as long as I’m clear in my order (ie, I’d like the entree salad, but leave off the salmon, etc.), I always end up with a vegetarian meal.
If we’re at someone else’s house and the meat is a separate part of the meal (something like steaks, a roast, etc.) I just serve myself the rest of the meal without making it obvious to my host that I’m not taking the meat. The only exception I make is if I would have to pass on the ENTIRE meal (and thus make it very obvious that I’m shunning their food) in order to avoid the meat. This is only the case on very rare occasions, with foods like chili, soups, and stews. I can’t say for sure how often it happens, but I know it’s very rare.
As far as our son goes, I cannot force him to not eat meat. Nor would I want to. That is a decision he’ll have to make as he gets older. I will teach him that we don’t kill spiders or ants, that we respect life, that factory farming is cruel, and that the best way to be healthy is to eat a wide variety of plant foods. If he decides to eat meat on a regular basis as an adult, that will be his choice.
And just a little food for thought as far as labeling ourselves… I started running about 15 years ago. Over the years, I’ve averaged between 10 and 40 miles a week (not counting the last two months of my pregnancy, when all my runs quickly evolved into walks). I consider myself a runner. Do I run like Deena Kastor? Hell no. Do I consider a woman who runs five miles a week to be a runner? Absolutely, if that’s what she calls herself. As long as she laces up her shoes and heads out the door, I don’t care how far, how fast, or how often she runs. She’s still a runner. And I’m a vegetarian. I can’t remember the last time I ate meat. I think it was in a soup at my parents’ house a few months ago. If there are people who don’t like that I call myself a vegetarian, that isn’t my problem.
J says
Honestly, I can’t say I can think of an instance where meat was included in the entire meal and there were no sides that I could bulk up on, instead. Close family and friends–parents, grandparents, etc know I’m a vegetarian and wouldn’t serve me a casserole with meat in it. If the salad includes bacon, for example, they set aside a portion before adding it for me.
Recently, I was at a good friend’s father’s house for dinner. Dinner was burgers. I asked if a roll could be set aside for me so I could make a sandwich with the fixings–lettuce, tomato, etc. Although my friend knows I don’t eat meat, he hadn’t told his father and his father was embarrassed that he didn’t have a chance to go get me a veggie burger at the store! I assured him I was happy to make a sandwich and didn’t need him to go to any trouble.
This sort of situation is far more common than making someone uncomfortable because I don’t eat meat and I’m “shunning” their food. Maybe it’s the region where I live but vegetarianism isn’t weird at all. I’m positive that the host’s mild embarrassment over not having a Boca burger for me is far less than the physical discomfort I would have felt after eating meat for the first time in over a decade!
big nan says
One comment, maybe a little late. My husband and I eat meat. I have four grown children, two of whom have partners. I love to cook. But when I get everyone together for a meal, I must admit to a bit of planning difficulty. One daughter is a vegan. One daughter-in-law is a vegetarian. Her partner (my son) is a vegetarian at home but will eat some types of meat at my house. My other two children still eat meat, although in limited quantities and types.
Add to this the fact that my husband is on a strict dialysis diet and needs very large amounts of high quality protein at every meal. He cannot eat dairy (cheese), dried beans, peanut butter, and a whole range of vegetables and other foods. His dietician has said vegetarian should be a last resort if he wants to stay as healthy as possible.
As a family we try to work together to meet everyone’s needs. But as the cook I have to admit that some of the enjoyment of entertaining is gone. I am getting older, and simple meals would be easiest for me. My food entertaining has become complicated.
B N
FrugalBabe says
Big Nan – Your comment sums up exactly why I have chosen to eat whatever is put in front of me if someone else is doing the cooking. I can choose to not attend an event, or eat what is served – for me, those are the only two acceptable choices. I have no desire to ever make hosts even have to CONSIDER going out of their way to think of a meal that they wouldn’t normally prepare, or providing additional dishes for me.
Kay says
Whoa!! I’m too late for this post! FB, That’s very nice of you to put people before your diet.
Des says
I know I am WAY too late to be of any value to this conversation, but I just stumbled across this post and I wanted to show my support for your balanced and mature view of Vegetarianism.
To those who say it is violating “dearly held” convictions to eat meat that is served at someone’s house: A person may have many convictions that clash in rare instances. Would you feed your child a medicine that was tested on animals if it was the only thing that would save his life? Of course you would, because your conviction to keep your child out of harm’s way is more important than your conviction to reduce animal suffering.
Likewise, I choose not to buy commercially produced meat and dairy products for my household. My “conviction” does not extend so far as to force my choices on my host. That is not hypocrisy, I’m not saying I’m veg and then ordering steak for dinner. My goal is to reduce animal cruelty, not to expunge every trace of it from my life. Even PETA made a statement at one time that said any effort to reduce consumption of animal products was to be applauded, even if it was merely a small reduction.
I agree with the commenter that said Vegetarians that insist on utter strictness give the lifestyle a bad rap. How many times have we heard “I can’t be vegetarian, I love meat too much”? These people could still REDUCE their consumption, but they are made to feel like they are hypocrites for doing so, so they don’t even bother. That is a shame.
All that just to say: Frugal Babe, I’m glad you are able to integrate Ethical eating habits into your life without needing it to become your identity. I wish more people would have such maturity.